In the early 2000s, Sheila Vijeyarasa was a powerful woman climbing the corporate ladder.
At least that's how it looked from the outside.
In reality, the now 48-year-old from Sydney/Gadigal Country says she spent 20 years dealing with "crippling amounts of anxiety and depression".
All because she was a perfectionist.
Sheila, who worked in accounting and publishing, would work ridiculously long hours — sometimes seven day a week — to try to satisfy her own high standards.
"I wanted someone to say, 'you're amazing. You're the best.'"
She says her strive for perfectionism meant her social life and relationships suffered, along with her mental health. Especially if she ever made a mistake.
"I fell into a depression and anxiety. I stopped eating, I stopped sleeping, I stopped coping," she recalls about one particular incident.
When you hear the term perfectionism, you might think of people who have achieved big goals, like winning gold at the Olympics.
Or maybe you picture someone with a perfectly organised pantry, categorised and labelled.
But real perfectionism is not necessarily about achievement or structure, and can be debilitating and all-consuming, as ABC podcast Ladies We Need to Talk discovered.
What is perfectionism really?
While high achievers can also be perfectionists, there is a difference between pursuing excellence and pursuing perfection, explains Eileen Seah, a self-described "recovering perfectionist" and clinical psychologist.
She is based in Sydney and specifically treats people with perfectionist tendencies.
"Pursuing perfection is unattainable because in reality there's always going to be stuff that isn't going to be perfect," Ms Seah says.
"Whereas excellence, it's having high standards, but also being very contextual, recognising there's certain limitations you should be adapting to."
Perfectionism, which Ms Seah describes as a personality trait, often sits alongside anxiety, depression, disordered eating and compulsive behaviour.
"That setting of unrelenting standards, striving for flawlessness, comes with a lot of self-criticism."
She says perfectionists are often workaholics and very detail-orientated — but also procrastinators.
"You get people who are extremely paralysed by the fear of failure.
"They avoid the tasks that they need to do … because they might be judged for their performance."
Perfectionism can show up at any stage of life, such as school and university, work, and parenting.
"To be constantly feeling the need to optimise, to do better, and not actually ever feeling that you're good enough … it's tiring, exhausting."
'Making a mistake felt very scary'
Sheila says her earliest memories of perfectionism were in school.
"I think this is a South-East Asian thing … an immigrant thing … but making a mistake just felt very scary.
"There was no maliciousness behind my parents' intentions … they wanted me to be the best, because which parent doesn't want their child to be the best?
"I was expected to perform at a high level [at school] … it was being in the top 1 per cent, it was topping exams, getting 100 per cent."
And perfectionism hasn't just ruled Sheila's schooling and working life.
Despite doing better in her mid-40s after confronting her perfectionism, those traits made a comeback during her experience with infertility.
"I got all the herbs, the acupuncture, [the] best naturopath. I was like, let's see if we can do the MBA of the fertility journey.
"And it was round after round, after round, and my mental health definitely declined."
At 46, Sheila had to surrender her idea of a "perfect pregnancy" with her own egg, and tried getting pregnant using a donor egg.
"It felt unnatural at the time. Yet my vision to be a mother was so strong.
"I had to go through an immense amount of grief to let go of that perfect version of me that wanted to be a mother in a certain way."
Not a quick fix
Like Sheila, 37-year-old Caroline Zielinski from Melbourne/Naarm remembers her perfectionism starting in school.
"I remember being sick and Mum saying 'You should stay home'. And I remember crying and saying, 'No, I have to go in because I'll miss a day. And that means I won't learn'."
Perceived failures also stay with her for a long time, like when she missed out on a dream job in her 20s.
"Back then, pressure would break me. I think I cocked up the interview. I was so stressed, like I was so anxious because I wanted it so badly.
"It devastated me for … a good 10 years."
In her 20s, Caroline started seeing a psychologist hoping to address her perfectionism.
"He lent me these lovely books, about kindness and accepting yourself as you are.
"And I just remember reading them and going, 'Oh, well, it's a nice fairytale'.
"He really tried to get me to be kind, but I ended up just abandoning that. I had a couple of sessions with him, and I just thought he was ineffective."
This is a common story for people seeking support with perfectionism, explains Ms Seah.
"Perfectionists [can] have very high standards that they place on other people.
"The expectation that the therapist is going to fix them, and fix them quickly, [is] one of the common things I've encountered."
Caroline says a "win or lose" perspective shapes so many parts of her life.
"I often say, if you're going to do something, do it well or don't do it at all.
She finds downtime difficult, because every moment must be optimised.
"Like when I go on holidays, you've got to go and do hiking and hike the bigger mountain and push yourself a bit."
Caroline also struggles when it comes to playtime with her three-year-old.
"I built her a fairy playground out of all these different toilet paper rolls and stuff.
"But it gets to a point where I'm like, 'You're doing it wrong, Evie'.
"She just wants to play."
How motherhood helped 'cure' Sheila's perfectionism
Sheila, who ended up having a baby using a donor egg, says becoming a mum has "cured" her perfectionism.
"This morning he had porridge all over his hands and he wanted a hug. And I was wearing this suit.
"And I let him hug me … I'm not missing out a single hug.
"I fought so hard to have [him]. And every moment with him is a miracle. I savour every delicious moment."
Sheila says life looks totally different to when she was ruled by perfectionism.
"There's honey dripping down the side and there's 50 teaspoons over there, and there's Lego and wet towels on the floor.
"And it is like, little brave acts. It is little steps every single day.
"It's been 20 years in the making, and I have a beautiful marriage, the messiest house, the most awesome son, because I honestly dealt with my perfectionism."
Caroline says she's determined to get better at letting things go for her daughter's sake.
"I do need to get on top of it because I don't want to pass this onto Evie."
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